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Re: What the... is this all about? (off-topic) (Read 9295 times)

Started by Douglas, August 30, 2011, 00:32:13

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#1
Re: What the... is this all about? (off-topic) |
August 30, 2011, 00:32:13
Nightwish, I am *very* sorry to do this to your thread/site, but I've had enough.  If you remember anything about me, you know that I don't start spewing venom until I am seriously irritated... and I've reached that point with Nao's misinterpretations and vile spewage.  I need to correct and clarify a couple points here.

Nao said:
Nighwish said:
Heh.. And I thought I was the only one and not aware of other forks :)
That's because the SMF team won't let anyone link to other forks, AFAIK. Well, apparently it's "allowed" to mention them, but not to link to them. (I suppose they never heard about Google... Let's keep it at that.)
Now, how grossly misinformed you are.  Forks that are being developed/released under the BSD licenses are being linked to.

YOU (not even Pete/Arantor in this situation... YOU) chose to release your software under a restrictive license. The team is still discussing on what guidelines to allow forks to be promoted on SMF. If Nightwish continues this project under a TRUE Open Source license (BSD or otherwise), then I have little doubt that this project would be linked/promoted on SMF.

You seriously need to put YOUR hatred of the SMF project to the side when attempting to speak on official SMF issues.

Nao said:
In the SMF terminology, though, "team leader" means "lazy ass".
I take GRAVE exception to this, Nao.  I was a Co-Leader (along with Rick C) of the Marketing team.  So you're telling me that I did jack squat in promoting SMF?  Great.  Thanks for telling me that all the work that Rick and I both did was for squat.  FYI, there are (and were) several Leads that busted their humps.  Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean they didn't.

I have a real personal issue with the way you are conducting yourself, Nao.  You are allowing your venomous rage to spew lies and disinformation about SMF.  And your little spam on my blog only further proves this.

At least we have the perfect picture of you handy:


Nightwish, again, I humbly apologize, however, I could no longer sit on my hands, listening/reading Nao's hateful spiteful comments and misinformation.  I do like the skin you've got going here.  A bit too "white", but it's still very well put together.
#2
Re: Re: What the... is this all about? (off-topic) |
August 30, 2011, 07:40:40
Nao said:
That's because the SMF team won't let anyone link to other forks, AFAIK. Well, apparently it's "allowed" to mention them, but not to link to them. (I suppose they never heard about Google... Let's keep it at that.)
Now, how grossly misinformed you are.  Forks that are being developed/released under the BSD licenses are being linked to.
To be fair, this statement was made before the official fork discussion board was added at sm.org, and before I started my project just about 4 weeks ago, I was not able to find anything about forks on the official forum nor any valuable information about the future development process as an open source project (which should be different from the pre-open source era). The flood of forks appeared after this board was added to the list of public boards. I can fully understand why you have some issues with non-open source forks, but at the same time, there is still some lack of true open source commitment at sm.org (e.g. no code repository with public read-only access, no way to see commit logs and follow the development process easily and a issue tracker that isn't really open to everyone among other things.)
Douglas  said:
Nightwish, again, I humbly apologize, however, I could no longer sit on my hands, listening/reading Nao's hateful spiteful comments and misinformation.  I do like the skin you've got going here.  A bit too "white", but it's still very well put together.
Well, basically, I don't care :) If you need a neutral territory to discuss (or even better: settle) your disagreements then feel free to continue even though I believe the gap between the Wedge guys and some former- or current officials seems to be wide and deep.

Because my background knowledge on all these political and maybe some personal issues is quite limited, I would prefer to keep my  rear side out of all the troubles. After all, I'm a developer and not really good in political arguing :)
__
Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to a single instruction that doesn't work.
My SMF-based forum fork
#3
Re: Re: What the... is this all about? (off-topic) |
August 31, 2011, 22:17:11
@Nightwish> I'm sorry for only posting about this, instead of keeping up with our very long technical posts... Although these definitely were very interesting, it was just too taxing for me -- took all of my energy to focus on these posts, so I just chose to leave them aside for now... (And as I know myself, 'for now' is a synonym for 'forever'...)
Feel free to re-ask anything about which you wanted a reply from me.

As for the rest... Well, just let it be made clear that I didn't choose to ignite this thing, and I didn't get to choose WHERE, either. The logical place to discuss this would be on wedge.org, not here...

Nao said:
Nighwish said:
Heh.. And I thought I was the only one and not aware of other forks :)
That's because the SMF team won't let anyone link to other forks, AFAIK. Well, apparently it's "allowed" to mention them, but not to link to them. (I suppose they never heard about Google... Let's keep it at that.)
Now, how grossly misinformed you are.  Forks that are being developed/released under the BSD licenses are being linked to.
My post: August 7.
SMF Fork board opened to the public on: August 16.

I'm not a psychic, and you don't care to gather information before you judge people.

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YOU (not even Pete/Arantor in this situation... YOU) chose to release your software under a restrictive license.
(1) I don't see the point in this 'discussion', (2) this decision was made back in November 2010 so it's even more irrelevant, (3) every major decision on Wedge is made by both Pete and I -- and since we're reasonable people, we never had a single issue with important decisions. I don't remember who suggested using the old SMF license for Wedge, but the decision was made together. Pete is not here for the show. He may seem less active than I am on the project, but that's only on the surface (i.e. commits). Internally he's a major force behind Wedge, and I'd never do anything in his back.

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You seriously need to put YOUR hatred of the SMF project to the side when attempting to speak on official SMF issues.
Blah blah blah.
"MY"? "hatred"? "SMF project"?
Again: where's the information gathering?

- I don't hate anything. I'm just being protective of my work. Do you know what it is exactly to spend an entire year of your life working fulltime on a project that you know for certain is not going to bring you a single dollar and instead is going to be a pain to support? Least we can do is keep it protected until Wedge is on the map. I wouldn't be exactly 'happy' if somone were to take my work, rebrand it and start selling it to his customers.

- Pete and I share the exact same opinions on the SMF project. It's not "mine".

- We both decided to take a break with the happy SMF team bashing. Pete was first (August 17), and I slowly stopped complaining as well, and haven't complained at all since the day I noticed my Friend status had been restored at sm.org (August 25). Do you think they'd give me the badge back if I declared publicly "my" hatred for the SMF project?

- And what do you mean by SMF project? The SMF software? Do you think we'd be working on Wedge if we didn't like SMF? Wedge is SMF reloaded, it's not a SMF competitor. It's just our contribution to the SMF community. What we have issues with is the SMF team. And even then -- not ALL of the team, obviously. We probably have more friends than 'enemies' on the SMF team. Many teamies and ex-teamies have joined Wedge.org and most of the technically aware teamies are in our Friends group as well. Just to let you know -- I'm the admin at Wedge.org, and I'm the one who assigns membergroups.

Pff.

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Nao said:
In the SMF terminology, though, "team leader" means "lazy ass".
I take GRAVE exception to this, Nao.  I was a Co-Leader (along with Rick C) of the Marketing team.
And?

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So you're telling me that I did jack squat in promoting SMF?  Great.
I'm not a psychic, and I'm not into archeology either. I speak about what I know. I've been active in the SMF community since late 2007, and all I saw was that the ones who were working the most, were the 'little ones', those who had no say in the end result. Developers who left out of frustration, things like that.
If a project doesn't evolve much in 3 years, which is an eternity on the Internet, forgive me for calling "lazy asses" anyone responsible for this fiasco.

What next? Will you dig up some 1997 post of mine on Usenet where I specifically call Americans "evil capitalists", and take offence for it? When does the paranoia stop?

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I have a real personal issue with the way you are conducting yourself, Nao.
Except you're not saying why... Which is where it gets interesting.

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You are allowing your venomous rage to spew lies and disinformation about SMF.  And your little spam on my blog only further proves this.
"Spam". How amusing. Or should I say insulting?

Considering you didn't even publish it, how exactly was it spam?
Considering I didn't even post a link to wedge.org in it, where exactly was it spam?
Considering I'm not stupid and I know that WordPress comments don't pass pagerank, why exactly do you call it spam?

To other readers: here's what I did. I was on Bryan's forum, reading through Douglas's account of his SMF years, found it cool, and followed the link to his blog. There, I saw an old post saying he was bored with WordPress and was going to switch his blog to use SMF instead. So I simply commented to say that if he had given up on the idea (considering it wasn't done yet), he could consider converting to Wedge, because we would offer a WordPress importer for it.
That's all I did.

I subscribed to the comments feed like I often do, and instead of my post, there he was, Douglas posting a comment to me (anyone who wasn't him or me would be at a loss to understand why he was commenting his own post and apparently insulting himself...), basically saying that "I'm contradicting MY core values".

Which was also quite intriguing, because (1) I never posted any "core values" to follow, anywhere, (2) I don't have any core values, I'm just your basic "don't do evil" geek, (3) SMF is the team that has core values and never follows them, not us...

Anyway, at that point I was wondering if that message was actually targeted to me or not. Apparently it was...
So, Douglas, let me just say: you know so little of me, you should be ashamed of even attempting to defame me in public. At least get your facts straight, because you're never going to convince anyone with so little work on your side.

Oh... And a last note. At first I was wondering why the hell he was targeting me that way. What did I do to him? It just struck me as odd for some time.
And then, yesterday, I remembered.

Douglas is part of SolarVPS, the company that hosts Akyhne's website.
Last year, Akyhne acted like a moron in my back, saying kind things to me in public and spitting on me in a place he found I had no access to. One of the things I hate is hypocrisy, so I wrote him and revoked his license to use my software (a once-in-a-lifetime thing, really.) He flat out refused to do it and started to argue his case in a ridiculous manner (I don't remember where the whole discussion happened, but it was very public.)
So I contacted his host, i.e. metallica & Douglas, asking to kindly send him a warning that he should abide by my terms. I was told that I needed to file a formal complaint. So I did. And then they refused again -- sending me back a formal complain by Akyhne, basically swearing under oath that he was allowed by the author to use his software. Except the author was me! Well, for an hypocrit, I wasn't surprised he would lie in such an obvious way, but I really didn't appreciate that metallica & Douglas basically just didn't give a damn that one of their customers was willing to break a software license. So I simply gave up on them and moved on to other things. After that, Akyhne was hired by the SMF team as a consulting developer (never actually submitting a single patch, BTW), so I figured that the SMF team didn't care at all, and it was a deal breaker for me, and started a lot of extra issues with them.

So... That's the whole story. The one that anyone should know before they read Douglas's posts and twits about me. I never told this story about SolarVPS until now, but it seems only logical to me that people should know about his morals before they blindly accept as "truth" anything he's going to say about me. He actually has a grudge against me because I asked him to warn a customer for breaking my license -- and now he's complaining that I'm still using a restrictive license on my work?!
And just because I chose to forget about this story and subsequently posted on his blog without any recollection of all this, he decided to post... that.

I only hope he was under influence.
__
  Wedge
« Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974.
It's a scientific fact. » (Homer Simpson)
#4
Re: Re: What the... is this all about? (off-topic) |
August 31, 2011, 22:46:57
Under some serious deadlines, but wanted to touch base on a few things...

Re: Your spam post on my blog - There was a reason why I didn't approve it. Simple fact: It was spam for the Wedge project. I have nothing against Wedge itself (aside from the licensing, which is one of the few reasons why I would personally never use it).  Simple fact of the matter is that I abhor spam.

Re: Timing - This thread was linked to me and that's why I responded.  I generally do not pay attention to dates unless something is patently old.

Re: Me working for Solar - You want to talk about being out of touch and late replies?  Look in the mirror. I haven't been a part of the Solar/DNow team since late March.  I'm not even involved in the hosting sector anymore.

Re: Your complaint about Akhyne and the licensing thing - You were beyond demanding to the point that the regular people that handled abuse tickets wouldn't even TOUCH your complaint.  They asked me to get involved for two reasons: I was second in command (Behind only the owner of Solar) and because you mentioned my name.

I told you that you needed to file a PROPER DMCA complaint in order to request a takedown. I also informed you that a Counter-DMCA could potentially be filed (and it was) which would then make this a CIVIL legal matter between you and the person you were filing the DMCA complaint on. Once a DMCA and Counter-DMCA have both been filed, that ends the obligation of ANY Hosting provider's responsibilities, since it then needs to progress to a Court of Law (or discussion between a Plantiff's and a Defendant's Lawyer).

I also recall that you wanted MY help/guidance on how to properly format and word a legally compliant DMCA. You got beyond irritated when I told you (respectfully) that it was not my responsibility to provide anyone any assistance with filing DMCA and counter-DMCA complaints.  You were attempting to use our friendship (at that time) to your advantage... on a professional level.  I'm sorry, but I will NOT risk my job, my career for the benefit of a third party. Had I acquiesced to your demands, I could have been suspended, fired and/or named as a co-defendant had this become a legal issue.  Sorry, but you're not worth the risk, buddy.

Let's not mince words here, Nao. I have serious issues with your ethics and how you conduct yourself personally and professionally.  "Oh Lordy, Nao can't get what he demands... so he'll throw histrionics and a pissy fit (nee: temper tantrum like a spoiled rotten child at a grocery store) until he achieves his own goals."

Simple fact of the matter is that you don't have the foggiest idea of business acumen, nor how to conduct your affairs professionally.  Nor do you even tell the complete story.  Everything I've seen from you is always presented in your own slanted view of the truth.

Let me re-iterate this again: I have no issues with the Wedge project (nor Arantor, for that matter). The issue lies with YOU, Nao.

--out.
Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 22:50:33 by Douglas
#5
Re: Re: What the... is this all about? (off-topic) |
August 31, 2011, 23:35:55
Under some serious deadlines, but wanted to touch base on a few things...

Re: Your spam post on my blog - There was a reason why I didn't approve it. Simple fact: It was spam for the Wedge project.
No. I didn't link to it, and I don't post links to Wedge.org on blogs hoping that their owners removed the rel="nofollow" and that I can actually spam them... I just don't do spamming, because I have no self-confidence when it comes to my own projects -- I only rely on word of mouth, and I simply update the Wedge blog and the official Facebook page. That's all. I'm no spammer and I won't let you call that spam. It was a sincere offer to help you move from WordPress to a SMF-based platform.

A totally misguided offer, though... Had I known beforehand how you'd consider any offer to help you, I'd have stayed away from you. FAR away.

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I have nothing against Wedge itself (aside from the licensing, which is one of the few reasons why I would personally never use it).
So, you're saying that the old SMF license sucks, and that you'll never use SMF either...?
And you said you were the marketing guy for SMF...? Wow.

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Simple fact of the matter is that I abhor spam.
Why did you post links to all of your websites on that runic forum interview, then? SMF outbound links don't do nofollow so technically that *was* spamming under your own definition...
As long as it's not you, eh?

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Re: Timing - This thread was linked to me and that's why I responded.  I generally do not pay attention to dates unless something is patently old.
Well, in that case you should have.
So you don't want to acknowledge (let alone apologize about it) that the date, albeit recent, changes the entire meaning of the post...?

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Re: Me working for Solar - You want to talk about being out of touch and late replies?  Look in the mirror. I haven't been a part of the Solar/DNow team since late March.  I'm not even involved in the hosting sector anymore.
And what has it got to do with this? I'm talking about a story that happened a year ago. Why should I have any interest in what you're doing now for a living?

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Re: Your complaint about Akhyne and the licensing thing - You were beyond demanding
"Beyond demanding"? I only asked Solar to ask Akyhne to comply! I was hoping that if I didn't have any say in this, maybe his host would!

But Solar probably didn't want to risk losing a customer, eh... So they just didn't bother about the fact that he was being a dishonest prick.

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I also informed you that a Counter-DMCA could potentially be filed (and it was) which would then make this a CIVIL legal matter between you and the person you were filing the DMCA complaint on. Once a DMCA and Counter-DMCA have both been filed, that ends the obligation of ANY Hosting provider's responsibilities, since it then needs to progress to a Court of Law (or discussion between a Plantiff's and a Defendant's Lawyer).
Which, as everyone knows, would have happened either way, because he broke the license for a free gallery software, and it's well worth investing thousands of dollars in a legal procedure on the matter... Sure.
Not even SMF went to court to protect its own interests.

I was told (by guess who) to go for the host because the company was made by ex-SMF big guns, and that they'd care about their customers not respecting the community. That's basically why I went to you guys. I thought you'd simply ask him to comply and be done with. I didn't realize what I was told was wrong and that you really had no influence on the company at all... And that, on top of that, you didn't give a damn about the SMF volunteers.
Still, I decided to drop the thing and just put the blame on Akyhne. Where exactly does YOUR hatred for me come from already...? Because I was upset that nobody at Solar was willing to help when I was obviously tired of all this?
You're quite a number...

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Let's not mince words here, Nao. I have serious issues with your ethics
Nice one.

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and how you conduct yourself personally and professionally.  "Oh Lordy, Nao can't get what he demands... so he'll throw histrionics and a pissy fit (nee: temper tantrum like a spoiled rotten child at a grocery store) until he achieves his own goals."
Is it really what you think? Is it really how much you care for volunteers? What should we do, shut the fuck up and work for you guys, for free, forever? Is that what we're supposed to do? Kneel to the SMF team and swallow our pride and whatever remains of our shattered egos?

Looks like you're great at marketing indeed. You don't read post, you send uninformed messages and you don't even show any respect for SMF as a whole. And you ask me to keep it quiet?

To think I actually sincerely wanted to HELP you move away from WordPress. You never deserved a second of my time.

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Simple fact of the matter is that you don't have the foggiest idea of business acumen, nor how to conduct your affairs professionally.
No idea of business acumen? Perhaps because I'm not doing a freaking business out of Wedge or Aeva Media, because I don't care to make money out of my contributions to the community?
Do I have to get a MBA in order to publish free software? Is that what you're telling me?

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Nor do you even tell the complete story.  Everything I've seen from you is always presented in your own slanted view of the truth.
My own "slanted" view happens to still be fully documented. What can you say about the fact that you've been publicly insulting me for not taking into account an event that happened 2 weeks after the post you're quoting, and that perhaps happened partly because of my complaining it didn't? I have yet to see you apologize for that.

So basically, you think you can come anywhere, say I'm a jerk, not even say why, and I'm abusing you by answering back?

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Let me re-iterate this again: I have no issues with the Wedge project (nor Arantor, for that matter). The issue lies with YOU, Nao.
As Pete said -- if you have an issue with me, then you have an issue with Wedge, because we are Wedge.
__
  Wedge
« Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974.
It's a scientific fact. » (Homer Simpson)
#6
Re: Re: What the... is this all about? (off-topic) |
January 08, 2012, 19:00:45
ouch, seems a bit acromonious
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